Difference between revisions of "Talk:Tonal Bitcoin"

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(Undo revision 33476 by Luke-jr (talk): Censor Luke-jr was in action again and again)
(adding unsigned tag and a few deleted comments.)
 
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'''NOTE: This discussion is repeatedly censored by Luke-Jr, the only user of Tonal Bitcoin. See History page of this Talk.'''
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This is for discussion, '''not trolling'''. Note that this is not an encyclopedia, and does not have any "notability" requirements. If you don't want to use Tonal, don't. Trolling is not acceptable and will be deleted. Reasoned criticism is welcome in the "Criticism" section of the page. {{Unsigned|Luke-jr|03:50, 28 August 2012}}
  
 
The point of Bitcoin is that it is a decentralized peer to peer currency.
 
That is the novelty about Bitcoin; the novelty is NOT that it comes along with a funky new way of counting things.
 
So please stop using Bitcoin to promote your own agenda ; this is just going to confuse people.
 
If you want to introduce a new method for counting currency, I suggest you go talk to the FED and propose the Tonal Dollar, or whatever.
 
[[User:ThomasV|ThomasV]] 14:33, 20 February 2011 (GMT)
 
* If Bitcoin has only one purpose, then it will never succeed. There are about as many people that care about a "decentralized peer to peer currency" as there are that care about Tonal. If you want BitCoin to succeed, you should support as many (legal) reasons to use it as possible. Also, whether it's ever enforced or not, vandalism and trolling should be bannable offenses. --[[User:Luke-jr|Luke-jr]] 04:43, 21 February 2011 (GMT)
 
 
This page should be deleted.
 
Nothing against Tonal, if there was a Hexadecimal Bitcoin or an Octal Bitcoin I would suggest those get deleted, too.
 
* Seconded. Tonal is not a key part of bitcoin, and currently not used in any form. If there is a reasonable number of users using tonal, then I would have no objections against this page. [[User:Mqrius|Mqrius]] 05:11, 2 February 2012 (GMT)
 
 
This is silly. I thought you'd removed this already, but it's seeping across to other pages despite me never seeing it in the wild. It serves only to confuse [[User:Gigitrix|Gigitrix]] 01:41, 13 June 2011 (GMT)
 
 
I agree with Gavin that this page should be deleted. Regardless of my personal opinion or the technical merits of tonal v. decimal, it's fair to say that tonal attracts scorn and ridicule from the vast majority of the population if they hear about it. Bitcoin's reputation suffers from the association. [[User:ByteCoin|ByteCoin]] 24 June 2011 (GMT)
 
* It's not fair to say that, no. --[[User:Luke-jr|Luke-jr]] 00:45, 25 June 2011 (GMT)
 
  
 
I have no legitimate stake in the matter, I made a few edits that I hope remove POV and still embrace the idea of Tonal Bitcoin. This is Raize, I am sorry I am not familiar enough with wiki editing to provide my signature. --[[User:Raize|Raize]]
 
I have no legitimate stake in the matter, I made a few edits that I hope remove POV and still embrace the idea of Tonal Bitcoin. This is Raize, I am sorry I am not familiar enough with wiki editing to provide my signature. --[[User:Raize|Raize]]
  
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==Proposal for deletion==
  
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This page should be deleted until there is a working, supported, maintained Tonal Bitcoin client. Vaporware doesn't belong on this wiki, you'll get articles on CosbyCoin and UnicornCoin...
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[[User:Gavinandresen|Gavin Andresen]] ([[User talk:Gavinandresen|talk]]) 23:28, 25 May 2013 (GMT)
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:Oh, a new player entered the arena in Luke's religious war :) The heavyweigh champion Gavin Andresen! I'm impressed! --[[User:Giszmo|Giszmo]] ([[User talk:Giszmo|talk]]) 01:48, 26 May 2013 (GMT)
  
I think this page needs a much clearer explanation of what is being documented and would be better if it had a more descriptive name.
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==Proposal for deletion==
 
 
The page could be renamed somthing like "describing and writing amounts of BTC using Tonal numbers"
 
 
 
How about replacing the first couple of sentances with
 
  
"Currently most people who use bitcoin use decimal numbers to represent amounts of money. That means numbers using the digits 0 to 9. All known bitcoin software displays amounts of currency to user with decimal numbers.
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I propose to delete this article on the following grounds.
  
Luke-jr thinks that there are people out there use a base 16 number system, he is probably right in the sense that it is correct to say that some people speak Latin because there are a few hundred people on the planet who speak Latin fluently.
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# "Tonal bitcoin" ''is'' Bitcoin. Tonal Bitcoin only refers to the choice of the bitcoin user to employ a different representation of standard bitcoin balances. Instead of using decimal, the originator proposes using tonal units. If we follow this approach to the extreme, we could also use any base X system. It comes down to this: If you have a bitcoin balance of X in decimal notation, you can convert this to a balance Y in tonal units.
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# There is almost no information about tonal bitcoin available on the web attesting to its insignificance. All information that is available seems to come from a single source. To make matters worse, the information that is available is extremely confusing and poorly written.
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# No one, with the possible exception of one person, use "tonal bitcoin" units.
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# Not one exchange or business uses Tonal bitcoin units (to my knowledge).
  
This page is a proposal for a way that people who use a base 16 number system called the 'tonal system' could talk about or write down amounts of BTC.
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[[User:Lunokhod|Lunokhod]] ([[User talk:Lunokhod|talk]]) 14:59, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
  
This is about as useful as a book about making chocolate teapots written in esperanto. There is no evidence that anyone other than Luke-jr has ever used non-decimal numbers for bitcoin."
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: '''1)''' Exactly why it is on-topic to the wiki, and should ''not'' be deleted; '''2)''' This wiki is just as relevant to the web as any random altcoin website, and this wiki explicitly permits and encourages original content and original research, unlike Wikipedia which is merely an encyclopedia; '''3)''' I know multiple people who use TBC (though I won't do so publicly so they can be trolled) - and in any case, significance and/or notability is not a concern of this wiki (see [[:Bitcoin:About|the wiki about/policy page]]); '''4)''' Again, irrelevant. --[[User:Luke-jr|Luke-jr]] ([[User talk:Luke-jr|talk]]) 16:10, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
  
--[[User:Ziv|Ziv]]
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:: I agree that this should not be deleted. This is not Wikipedia, we don't have a notability policy, and explicitly allow technical or niche material relating to bitcoin. [[User:Nanotube|Nanotube]] ([[User talk:Nanotube|talk]]) 16:31, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
  
==Voting about deleting page==
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I think this article should be deleted as this wiki is for Bitcoin, not altcoins. The creator of Tonal Bitcoins calls it "First (and best) altcoin ever: Tonal Bitcoin (TBC)" - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=218388.0 , and seeing as this wiki has no article on [[Litecoin]] or [[Dogecoin]], this website should go as well. Nobody cares about this, and it's just useless clutter on pages like this or [[Units]].
  
I also think this page should be deleted. There are at least three people suggesting this now, so I will re-add the delete tag to the page. So far there seems to be only one objection to the delete. I will initiate voting on this talk page. --[[User:Rebroad|Rebroad]] 22:48, 20 March 2012 (GMT)
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[[User:ThePiachu|ThePiachu]] ([[User talk:ThePiachu|talk]]) 01:49, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' - I believe this tonal suggestion will only do harm to the bitcoin project, and so far the only person advocating it is luke-jr, who rarely gives any rational reasons that I nor anyone else AFAIK can understand. Sorry luke-jr, but I'm doing my best to get you to explain the benefits. --[[User:Rebroad|Rebroad]] 22:52, 20 March 2012 (GMT)
 
*'''Delete''' - I've been lurking for a while, but I registered after seeing this nonsense here. Clearly if luke-jr is simply (and rather immaturely) blanking the discussion rather than responding to the specific points he has few arguments to marshal in his favor. --[[User:Zyzygy|Zyzygy]] ([[User talk:Zyzygy|talk]]) 05:14, 26 August 2012 (GMT)
 
*'''Delete''' along with all other references to this bullshit one man show in history, firsts and maybe other places. It serves no other thing than to Luke's ego. Why should the wiki as a whole support this? Apparently he realized that he can't win with arguments as he just deleted this very discussion. --[[User:Giszmo|Giszmo]] ([[User talk:Giszmo|talk]]) 15:41, 27 August 2012 (GMT)
 
*'''Delete''' because:
 
# nobody knows it - it seems that all sources are from one person [[User:Luke-jr|Luke-jr]] and from 150 years old (!) book. There is no notability. Nobody after cares about it. There are no "tonal system community" or "people that are using tonal system" - tonal system uses just 1 person and he is trying to misappropriate Bitcoin for this
 
# Tonal system is not at any way related to Bitcoin. Tonal system is related to numbers representation, not to monetary system. Please keep this page in general Wikipedia or some numeric Wikipedia, not in Bitcoin Wikipedia
 
# Tonal units are very confusing - from technically point of view (font, writing it) and mainly there is very similar to decimal numbers - there are many cases in which is not clear which system is used. Also TBC is common typing error of BTC
 
:'''Also I propose remove all notation about tonal from other wiki pages''', for example [[Units]] (very confusing), [[History]], [[Wallet protocol]] or [[Vocabulary]], and prevent them from reverting back (as happened several times). At least until Luke-jr (or someone else) find notable cites to keeping it here. [[User:Aleš Janda|Aleš Janda]] ([[User talk:Aleš Janda|talk]]) 19:44, 27 August 2012 (GMT)
 
  
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:This just seems petty and vindictive to me, and also needlessly drama inducing. This wiki exists to cover Bitcoin things, it's fine if it covers niche and obscure aspects of the Bitcoin ecosystem. That this wiki isn't free hosting and advertisement for your choice of competing currencies is no reason to justify deleting things on the wiki. --[[User:Gmaxwell|Gmaxwell]] ([[User talk:Gmaxwell|talk]]) 06:26, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  
Luke-jr comment to voting: This is for discussion, not trolling. Note that this is not an encyclopedia, and does not have any "notability" requirements. If you don't want to use Tonal, don't. Trolling is not acceptable and will be deleted. Reasoned criticism is welcome in the "Criticism" section of the page.
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::A fair point. That being said, due to the nonexistent userbase of the Tonal Bitcoins, I would keep them away from non-relevant pages of the wiki, such as the mentioned [[Units]]. [[User:ThePiachu|ThePiachu]] ([[User talk:ThePiachu|talk]]) 07:31, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
  
:What exactly from this discussion is "trolling"? I think you regard as trolling ANY critism. Don't clear discussion. Also, "Criticism" section is not good place to talk. [[User:Aleš Janda|Aleš Janda]] ([[User talk:Aleš Janda|talk]]) 09:16, 19 September 2012 (GMT)
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:::I use base 27 for all my bitcoin balances and have made up names for all the numbers and powers of 27. They're named after my cats. Can I add them to the [[Units]] page? [[User:Dooglus|Dooglus]] ([[User talk:Dooglus|talk]]) 08:08, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 16:23, 5 March 2015

This is for discussion, not trolling. Note that this is not an encyclopedia, and does not have any "notability" requirements. If you don't want to use Tonal, don't. Trolling is not acceptable and will be deleted. Reasoned criticism is welcome in the "Criticism" section of the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Luke-jr (talkcontribs) at 03:50, 28 August 2012


I have no legitimate stake in the matter, I made a few edits that I hope remove POV and still embrace the idea of Tonal Bitcoin. This is Raize, I am sorry I am not familiar enough with wiki editing to provide my signature. --Raize

Proposal for deletion

This page should be deleted until there is a working, supported, maintained Tonal Bitcoin client. Vaporware doesn't belong on this wiki, you'll get articles on CosbyCoin and UnicornCoin... Gavin Andresen (talk) 23:28, 25 May 2013 (GMT)

Oh, a new player entered the arena in Luke's religious war :) The heavyweigh champion Gavin Andresen! I'm impressed! --Giszmo (talk) 01:48, 26 May 2013 (GMT)

Proposal for deletion

I propose to delete this article on the following grounds.

  1. "Tonal bitcoin" is Bitcoin. Tonal Bitcoin only refers to the choice of the bitcoin user to employ a different representation of standard bitcoin balances. Instead of using decimal, the originator proposes using tonal units. If we follow this approach to the extreme, we could also use any base X system. It comes down to this: If you have a bitcoin balance of X in decimal notation, you can convert this to a balance Y in tonal units.
  2. There is almost no information about tonal bitcoin available on the web attesting to its insignificance. All information that is available seems to come from a single source. To make matters worse, the information that is available is extremely confusing and poorly written.
  3. No one, with the possible exception of one person, use "tonal bitcoin" units.
  4. Not one exchange or business uses Tonal bitcoin units (to my knowledge).

Lunokhod (talk) 14:59, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

1) Exactly why it is on-topic to the wiki, and should not be deleted; 2) This wiki is just as relevant to the web as any random altcoin website, and this wiki explicitly permits and encourages original content and original research, unlike Wikipedia which is merely an encyclopedia; 3) I know multiple people who use TBC (though I won't do so publicly so they can be trolled) - and in any case, significance and/or notability is not a concern of this wiki (see the wiki about/policy page); 4) Again, irrelevant. --Luke-jr (talk) 16:10, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
I agree that this should not be deleted. This is not Wikipedia, we don't have a notability policy, and explicitly allow technical or niche material relating to bitcoin. Nanotube (talk) 16:31, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

I think this article should be deleted as this wiki is for Bitcoin, not altcoins. The creator of Tonal Bitcoins calls it "First (and best) altcoin ever: Tonal Bitcoin (TBC)" - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=218388.0 , and seeing as this wiki has no article on Litecoin or Dogecoin, this website should go as well. Nobody cares about this, and it's just useless clutter on pages like this or Units.

ThePiachu (talk) 01:49, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

This just seems petty and vindictive to me, and also needlessly drama inducing. This wiki exists to cover Bitcoin things, it's fine if it covers niche and obscure aspects of the Bitcoin ecosystem. That this wiki isn't free hosting and advertisement for your choice of competing currencies is no reason to justify deleting things on the wiki. --Gmaxwell (talk) 06:26, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
A fair point. That being said, due to the nonexistent userbase of the Tonal Bitcoins, I would keep them away from non-relevant pages of the wiki, such as the mentioned Units. ThePiachu (talk) 07:31, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
I use base 27 for all my bitcoin balances and have made up names for all the numbers and powers of 27. They're named after my cats. Can I add them to the Units page? Dooglus (talk) 08:08, 1 March 2015 (UTC)